SMDH

"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner) 09/03/2020 at 10:47 • Filed to: Front Page

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I just can’t with the front page anymore. I just don’t understand how you can be so misinformed about a basic, fundamental aspect of the industry you are supposed to be covering. This isn’t just a bad take. It’s a failure to understand bordering on intentional ignorance. That’s fine for the peanut gallery comments, but this is their job.

I could understand getting a nuanced aspect of a difficult topic wrong but this is just way beyond that. Help me Oppo, you’re my only hope.

Raphael’s words, 2nd Gear from The Morning Shift.

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For your time

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > Future next gen S2000 owner 09/03/2020 at 11:11

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I understand his point. When I think of EVs, what comes to mind is high-end stuff like the Audi etron, Jag I-Pace, and of course Manchild Motors Teslas. Why not just make an EV Hyundai Elantra? FWIW, Kia is making an EV Soul.

ranwhenparked > ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy 09/03/2020 at 11:16

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I believe the biggest problem with that is that batteries are still really expensive, and the luxury market tolerates a higher markup to cover that, so low priced electrics still either have to have shitty range or sell at a loss.

TheJWT > Future next gen S2000 owner 09/03/2020 at 11:19

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I don’t disagree with Raph. I’d definitely consider an electric car as my next car if it cost what I paid for my Honda Fit. Sure, new tech may be bringing down the cost of electric cars, but automakers are adding all that cost back in with unnecessary  features

Future next gen S2000 owner > ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy 09/03/2020 at 11:22

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We have compact, non-luxury EV’s. The Leaf, which is the number 1 selling EV of all time, and the Bolt. Neither of which are directly cost competitive with a comparable ICE car. Hyundai also makes an EV version of the Kona.

Just because they don’t come to mind, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

He premise is flawed though because his position assumes that EV’s would be cheap if they were simply not luxury class vehicles and that’s just not reality .

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > ranwhenparked 09/03/2020 at 11:28

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That’s what I’ve always figured.

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > Future next gen S2000 owner 09/03/2020 at 11:29

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A single quality 18650 battery costs around $5 USD retail. A single pouch cell, considerably more. Unless people are going to be content  with a 50km range on their new car, it’s gonna cost ya.

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > Future next gen S2000 owner 09/03/2020 at 11:33

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Ah yes, the Leaf and Bolt. Duh.

To me, those reinforce his point. They show you don’t have to have radical interiors and batwing doors to have an EV.

ranwhenparked > ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy 09/03/2020 at 11:40

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That, and luxury buyers are more likely to have available garage storage, more likely to be multicar households, and less likely to need to drive a lot for work (if at all), all of which makes them an easier sell on an electric. 

Future next gen S2000 owner > ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy 09/03/2020 at 11:43

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I don’t see how it could help his point . The Bolt starts at 36K. The Leaf also starts north of 3oK. That is much higher than other compact cars. Again, the cost delta between a Leaf and a Versa isn’t due to luxury, it’s the battery. The Versa starts about 15K lower than the Leaf. You can’t simply remove content to lower the Leaf down to that starting point.

CobraJoe > ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy 09/03/2020 at 11:44

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It is a point, why brag about “making EVs cheaper” when they could just make a cheaper EV to start with.

But it’s missing a few significant points:

1. EVs are still quite expensive. The EV S oul is nearly twice the price of a base Soul. Buyers are generally hesitant to spend a lot of money on an uncomfortable or under equipped vehicle, so adding a bit of luxury makes the price feel less exorbitant .

2. EVs converted from ICE vehicles often aren’t optimized for range or for interior space.

3. The buyers control the market. Kia Soul EVs only account for 1% of all Soul sales in the past 3 years. 3197 total Soul EV sales since 2017. The Tesla Model S sold 66, 905 in the same time period , and the Tesla Model 3 sold 158, 925 in 2019 alone.  

Future next gen S2000 owner > TheJWT 09/03/2020 at 11:51

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I’d be willing to bet, feature for feature, a new Leaf would be 10K more than a new Fit. There is a low end EV market. Those cars are still way more expensive than their ICE counter parts.

A Leaf starts at 31K. The Fit starts around 16K. You aren’t decontenting a Leaf to be sub 20K.

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > Future next gen S2000 owner 09/03/2020 at 11:56

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Right, but I don’t think Raph is talking about Leaf vs. Versa.

TheJWT > Future next gen S2000 owner 09/03/2020 at 12:18

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That’s true, but car makers could definitely be putting more effort into driving down that price. People have been saying that for years but I don’t see it happening much yet.

Chariotoflove > Future next gen S2000 owner 09/03/2020 at 12:56

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I agree with you. The tech is not there yet to make cheap EVs that people will want to buy. Even i f you could make a Leaf-like car, stripped down and light enough to be under $25K and still have a useful range, most of the market wouldn’t buy it. Buyers have spoken, and they want CUVs with plenty of power and three row seating.

onlytwowheels > ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy 09/03/2020 at 21:25

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https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129105_report-kia-soul-ev-not-returning-to-us-market